Motorized beach wheelchairs will be available. It was an outdoor ceremony the day after a heavy rain. Fakahatchee Strand Preserve State Park is located along the Tamiami Trail, which is a road that leads from Southwest Florida to Miami where there are many stops you can make for a chance to see alligators. Alligators are generally pretty scared of people and usually won't just randomly approach your campsite. Shes a high school senior now. The alligator had been a popular curiosity among kayakers and paddleboarders in Silver Springs State Park, where it was often seen lounging in the sun along the banks of the Silver River. The weather was awesome, what a perfect time to visit Oscar Scherer State Park in Osprey, Florida. But she had puncture wounds from the alligators 80 teeth. Cayo Costa State Park is on an island in Florida. "So I tried to do it.". Then, in 1956, the Park was opened to the public. Login Report Excellent hiking and biking trails.. Date of Stay: Feb 2023 Nightly Rate: $40 USD Tim&Darcy 4 Reviews | 7 Photos | 2 Tips Overall Rating Value Service Cleanliness Stayed 7 days #27 narrow but deep. He's still lean in his state park uniform. The state park is the only home hes known. Dr. Katherine Clements is the Ecology and Natural Resources Educator for UF/IFAS Extension and Sustainability Sarasota County. For printable brochures, posters, and coloring sheets visit https://myfwc.com/education/wildlife/gopher-tortoise/. Most Facebook users can now claim settlement money. ", First published on March 10, 2022 / 9:59 AM. on the island of Cayo Costa! Get browser notifications for breaking news, live events, and exclusive reporting. Not much farther is a shopping mall and movie theater. With tax it was just over $16 per boat. hbbd```b``f+@$Li`r>dV,r&g]`` rn bM@&Ff}D0 ,@ Their techniques have been passed down through generations, but even they sometimes suffer injuries. Male tortoises also have a concave plastron, females have a flat plastron. "Its second-nature for the kids. Photo credit: K. Clements Gopher tortoises in Florida are listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act. Its not necessary to be in water for an alligator to attack. But they had no idea who was coming to the school. Tortoises are also susceptible to upper respiratory tract disease (URTD). WebSpanning nearly 1,400 acres, the Oscar Scherer State Park offers a myriad of recreational opportunities that both two- and four-legged visitors can enjoy. JEWEL CAVE SD, HAWAII TRAVEL PLANNING Please enter valid email address to continue. Living in Oscar Scherer is a mixed blessing for the park manager. "We should have time for kayaking.". In addition to providing a refreshing respite for urban dwellers, the park serves as an important habitat for the imperiled Florida scrub-jay, which can only be found in Florida. He and his wife wore green-and-white costumes that they made themselves. Apron: This is the loose sandy soil at the door of the burrow that has been dug out by the tortoise. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alligator-killed-viral-video-paddleboarder-florida "Every good dad should have a gorilla suit, right? Doctors later said an alligators mouth is about the dirtiest place imaginable. The Clementses menagerie includes a pair of chocolate Labrador retrievers and a flock of chickens, along with a rabbit and guinea pigs that live in a corner of the kitchen. Tony became assistant park manager and then manager. It was more than 11 feet long. MOUNT RUSHMORE SD WebFriends of Oscar Scherer Park, Inc. June 10 at 5:00 AM Spotted along the water's edge, Pickerelweed is a beautiful flower b ringing color to its surroundings at Oscar Scherer You may help tortoises across a roadway (in the direction they were traveling), but otherwise do not handle or harass a tortoise in any way. The scrub ecosystem is a rare component of our Florida environment and is home to many wonderful plants and animals. Published in the August 2016 issue of "She was jumping from the rocking chair to another chair," he says. Its a little lonely. Get away from me, get away from me," as the large gator approaches. She said during an interview in September she did not want the alligator destroyed, despite its menacing behavior. endstream endobj startxref Clements family traditions include outdoor vacations. ARIZONA Being able to take someone down the path of life, thats just everything.". The weather was awesome, what a perfect time to visit Oscar Scherer State Park in Osprey, Florida. In this Feb. 22, 2022, photo taken by paddler Brady Toensing, 54, of Reddick, Fla., licensed alligator trapper Al Roberts stands with a nearly 12-foot alligator killed in Silver Springs State Park, Fla. Sapp, the wildlife agency spokesperson, confirmed Wednesday that Parker assigned the job to a colleague, Al Roberts, another licensed trapper. A gopher tortoise shell is actually made up of numerous plates, called scutes, made of keratin, the same substance our fingernails are made from. Scutes: Gopher tortoises are reptiles, like snakes and lizards and alligators. NEW YORK Today, they number about 1 million. There might be alligators in the waterway thats almost directly along the Tamiami Trail. "Were supposed to wake up, have breakfast with Katherines father, then go kayaking and visit my father," Clements says. The front door of the house faces the park equipment yard, but the rear deck looks out over the pines and palmettos of rare scrub habitat. 2023 www.heraldtribune.com. It's Free! Keystone species, like gopher tortoises, often determine the health of their ecosystem and the other species that live there. 928 0 obj <> endobj In August 1973, 16-year-old Sharon Elaine Holmes was presumed to have been killed by an alligator while swimming in a lake at Oscar Scherer State Park near ). On the Tamiami Trail between Naples and Homestead, Seminole and Miccosukee Indians wrestle alligators for tourists. "Their friends loved to come and play in the park. The scenery was lovely. Then he came up with a twist. An alligator nearly 12 feet in size could be 40 years old. along the way! State records kept since 1948 show 348 attacks on humans, and 24 fatalities. WebSpanning nearly 1,400 acres, the Oscar Scherer State Park offers a myriad of recreational opportunities that both two- and four-legged visitors can enjoy. Here's how. "That whole experience, theres nothing like it. Theres no corner store or crowds of kids. Oscar Scherer is a gentleman whos a businessman, who invented a patent for leather. GRAND CANYON AZ "When I tell people we live in a state park, they dont believe me," Aurora says. Construction workers found her dismembered body the next day. Burrows are also a refuge from fires that burn through the scrub helping regenerate native plants, restore nutrients to sandy soil, and clear patches of open ground for gopher tortoise travel and Florida scrub jays to cache their acorns. Vicki Baker, 60, of Ocala said after her videos went viral she was harassed online relentlessly by people who mistakenly believed she had fed it. The Clementses are vegetarians, for the most part again, except for Oakley. The alligator that snatched her as she swam was killed. A gator more than 12 feet long killed him. Burrows have only one opening, but a tortoise may use more than one burrow at a time. "All children probably think the grass is greener on the other side of the street, or another neighborhood, but they have no idea," Katherine says. Melsek escaped the alligators grip. There is also a spot in Myakka River State Park thats known for alligator sightings. GREAT SMOKY MOUNTAINS TN NC Hes always been a playful dad. Sheriff says Texas shooting suspect "could be anywhere now". Males use their gular horns to fight over territory or female tortoises. The alligator hissed loudly at the paddleboarder and opened its mouth, baring its large teeth and a powerful jaw. In many of the cases, as a kindergarten teacher might put it, Someone made a bad decision.. Hes built a career in the park service, but has never taken himself too seriously. "For days.". HALEAKALA HI It might take you 20 minutes to walk from the parking lot to the end of the boardwalk one way if you dont stop to take in the sights and sounds (birds!) Eat later. And in Southwest Florida, theres even a state park where you need to leave the car behind to get to! Snakes shed their skin as they grow, but a tortoises spine is attached to their upper shell, called a carapace. Their shells stay soft for up to 7 years. After the paddleboard encounter in September, the Florida Department of Environmental Protection and wildlife conservation commission launched formal investigations of the alligator. Her arms were found inside an eight-foot alligator. Not a huge success. They must chomp a piece and swallow in one gulp. Their son, Oakley, 11, was born in a house at Oscar Scherer. There have been less than 30 fatal attacks since 1948 and each year there is only an average of ~3 bites that take place. To avoid an encounter with a gator, wildlife experts said people must never feed them. The gopher tortoises only real predators are humans and dogs, so keep your dogs leashed and watch out for our tortoises on the roads or in your neighborhood! WebOSCAR SCHERER STATE PARK. PEARL HARBOR HI / CBS/AP. The kids have never had an outdoor mishap or serious illness, though Oakley broke his arm in the living room when he was 2. . To go to Cayo Costa State Park, youll need to leave the car behind! Snatch food. Cayo Costa State Park is the real Florida as the people of Florida state parks like to say! Gopher tortoise tracks at Oscar Scherer State Park. The family left for Seattle, where Katherine trained in naturopathic medicine, but then returned to Florida and the Osprey state park. "I had to get someone with a canoe to come and get me out of the house.". This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. "It was sad, but these guys are just doing their jobs. ", UPDATE: A nearly 12 foot long alligator that menaced a Florida paddleboarder last fall has been killed by a trapper. They have to do all these things before they get an Easter basket.". Research has shown that over 350 different species of animals rely on the gopher tortoise and its burrow. Still, she tries. endstream endobj 929 0 obj <. Florida has been their home long before Indians built chickee huts and developers drained swamps for sprawling suburban development. And Tony and I never second-guessed our decision to stay here.". ** Music By SLIP STREAMMusic by Slip.stream - \"Gator Stew\" - https://slip.stream/tracks/df2a1951-273e-4b4b-9072-fcd531c78586Music by Slip.stream - \"Cmon Little Buddy\" - https://slip.stream/tracks/3c332e1c-9829-469b-8c72-14baf01e472aMusic by Slip.stream - \"Community Support\" - https://slip.stream/tracks/4f259223-99dd-404f-add6-523e328b41aaMusic by Slip.stream - \"In All My Days\" - https://slip.stream/tracks/e1e9086e-ec6c-436f-9bf7-5bbe80d0572fMusic by Slip.stream - \"Days Behind Us\" - https://slip.stream/tracks/c88a7124-88ed-4755-bdd4-eed2e4d3f0c5Music by Slip.stream - \"You Thinking Of Me Inst\" - https://slip.stream/tracks/37fd8967-aacb-4e57-8e9e-f8842b221034Music by Slip.stream - \"Cr Rusticamericana\" - https://slip.stream/tracks/ed8515c8-2757-41b3-9c81-1f365ee0d6fdMusic by Slip.stream - \"Cr Rusticamericana\" - https://slip.stream/tracks/72f5c9f4-7679-4af1-bc11-1fdad8fe3cbfMusic by Slip.stream - \"Cr Countryrock\" - https://slip.stream/tracks/ff7d5017-447b-41f8-b959-5d0c362da404Music by Slip.stream - \"Cr Countryrock\" - https://slip.stream/tracks/befefc1d-d391-4d68-82eb-c5ad34502ecf WebFakahatchee Strand Preserve State Park is located along the Tamiami Trail, which is a road that leads from Southwest Florida to Miami where there are many stops you can make for a chance to see alligators. %%EOF July 29, 2016 WHAT TO WEAR SNORKELING A wall is covered with mementos and one of those classic Florida photos of everyone in matching white shirts at the beach. You can make it a day trip to Cayo Costa State Park, or if youve got some time to spare, you can make it a night (or more!) WYOMING Clements isnt complaining. Your California Privacy Rights / Privacy Policy. 0 Once, dressed as the Incredible Hulk for a costume party, he grabbed young Tony by an ankle and dangled him over a stairwell. Look up, and you can see massive trees and other sights of wild Florida! It wasnt part of any grand plan. WebWe did not see a single Alligator all weekend! First is in the parking area. WebWelcome to Oscar Scherer State Park Surrounded by urban areas, Oscar Scherer is an unexpected oasis providing visitors with a refreshing escape into natural Florida. "There was only one alligator of this size in the area," Sapp wrote in an email. It was after midnight on Sept. 26, 2004 when she decided to take a swim in a retention pond at Lee Memorial Health Park. I would like to thank you for watching our videos and supporting our channel. Where once there were millions in Florida, there were only about 300,000 by 1967. Gopher tortoises have other interesting adaptations, do you know what these words mean? "The guy said, 'Would you wanna ride in the boat with this monster?'". Lane was wading in a few inches of fresh water while his parents watched. Florida wildlife officials have now killed a nearly 12-foot alligator that swam within inches of a frightened paddleboarder in a popular state park during a September encounter recorded on video that went viral. "We're stuck in the car for hours," she says. For many years, he arranged an Easter egg hunt for their children and friends. After seeing the Still, they live in a state park. As a tortoise grows, new larger scutes are formed under the older scutes which are then shed. This is usually around $5 per car. The park home to alligators, large turtles, manatees and even a colony of monkeys enforces a no-swimming rule. Or, if you can spend more time in the Fakahatchee Strand Preserve State Park by going for a leisurely walk! Sharon Holmes was a fit 16-year-old visiting Oscar Scherer State Park just south of Sarasota on Aug. 16, 1973. Stress in animals can affect their behavior, feeding and reproductive habits. HAWAII EVERYDAY ESSENTIALS Normal activities that do not disturb tortoises or their burrow do not require a permit, but keep dogs away from tortoises and their burrows. The kids can explore and check out the things around them. There are 104 campsite with water & Alligators are Floridas oldest reptile, dating back to the dinosaurs. The Nature Center at Lake Osprey has interpretative exhibits about the Park. Oscar Scherer State Park 335 Reviews #3 of 20 things to do in Osprey Nature & Parks, State Parks 1843 S Tamiami Trl, Osprey, FL 34229-9663 Save Sunseeker1962 21 8 Kayaking! BADLANDS SD Rish Recreation Area Port St. Joe, FL Event Plein Air Landscape Painting Workshop Alligators cant chew as we do. WHAT TO WEAR HIKING, 2023 Flashpacking America | US outdoor travel blog, Shelling cruise to Keewaydin Island from Naples, alligator bridge in Myakka River State Park, Fakahatchee Strand Preserve State Park alligators, Best state parks in the Florida Panhandle, Collier-Seminole State Park campground (BUGGY! The state hires a trapper under the Statewide Nuisance Alligator Program when it determines an alligator poses a threat to the public. MAUI "Its like having a 1,400-acre backyard. They routinely eat wading birds, raccoons, even dogs that walk along a shore near them. WebWe did not see a single Alligator all weekend! Nancy Becker, 88, female August 15, 2022 The The endangered indigo snake and gopher frog, gopher mouse, rabbits, racerunners and skinks at any given moment may be using the gopher tortoise burrow to shelter from the weather, lay eggs, hide from predators, or stay safe from a fire. I did see alligators in both spots in April, though! The numbers show your We never have to worry about what the neighbors would think. Each incident could be a lesson. %PDF-1.6 % PICTURED ROCKS MI Are there ways that sea turtles and gopher tortoises are alike? Lanes family had come from Nebraska and was staying at the Grand Floridian Resort overlooking the Seven Seas Lagoon. Watch the viral video of her encounter. Habitat destruction is the greatest threat to the continuation of the gopher tortoise. "Its an amazing place to raise your children," Tony says. "Now they have to go around the park and find different things. Sharon Holmes, 16, female, was killed by an 11'3' male alligator while swimming at dusk in a lake at Oscar Scherer State Park, Sarasota County, on Aug. 16, Keystone species: Like the necessary top stone that holds up the arch of a bridge, a keystone species is necessary to its ecosystem. Alligators begin breeding in early April, and females become more defensive of their environment to protect their eggs while they hatch. A Sarasota Magazine She never made it. Thats because the way to get to Cayo Costa State Park is by boat! People continue to build in areas that were previously places were alligators were apex predators, and alligators which were listed as an endangered species that was considered on the 1255 N. Gulfstream Avenue, Suite 101, Sarasota, FL 34236, What We Can All Learn From the Disney World Alligator Attack, Everything You Need to Know About American Alligators, I Ate My Way Around The World At Epcot. They sound like fun. The death came as temperatures in north-central Florida began climbing and just ahead of mating season, when male alligators become far more active. Their daughter, Aurora, now 16, has grown up in the park. Theyre protected by law! The Associated Press contributed to this report. So stop by a Publix grocery store for prepared food or picnic food and eat your meal outdoors with views! And he always knew he wanted to be a father. As they grow, their shell must grow with them. And any body of fresh water, including here in Southwest Florida, can be home to one or more. Yet it was probably the Clementses most important decision as parents. He describes his dad as a practical joker. EVERGLADES FL That was consistent with the estimate from Baker, who said it was nearly as long as her 10-foot paddleboard. At 46, Clements has a touch of gray in his black beard. The Clementses live in a double-wide manufactured home that was built for the parks previous manager. The family has a favorite walk along the park's red and blue trails. Its a quiet Florida island experience! WebRemember to SUBSCRIBE! So you are going to Southwest Florida along the gulf coast! There are about 15 miles of marked hiking and biking trails. FWC began tracking alligator attacks in 1948, and provides these snapshots of Florida's unprovoked fatal alligator attacks through September 2016: 1. Sharon Holmes, 16, female, was killed by an 11'3" male alligator while swimming at dusk in a lake at Oscar Scherer State Park, Sarasota County, on Aug. 16, 1973. Death isnt always so immediate. YELLOWSTONE WY We saw several different birds and an alligator. And the Halloween when he showed up in costume . A day later, Lanes lifeless body was found about 20 yards from shore. That setting, that refuge, has shaped their lives. The paddleboarder the alligator approached in September also declined to discuss the animal's death. Ectothermic? GULF ISLANDS FL 948 0 obj <>/Filter/FlateDecode/ID[<0406006ED2ED30458BCB99AEC4E5EEC0>]/Index[928 30]/Info 927 0 R/Length 104/Prev 199246/Root 929 0 R/Size 958/Type/XRef/W[1 3 1]>>stream Delnor-Wiggins Pass State Park is a state park in Southwest Florida that you might be able to find shells. I saw alligators there! "Oh, cmon," Clements says, smiling and interrupting the story. There is no Delnor-Wiggins Pass State Park campground. Subscribe to UF/IFAS Extension Sarasota County Blog, Sarasota County Green Business Partnership: A look back, 2022 Sustainable Communities Workshop video contest for young adults, EVENT: EcoWalk -- Unique Preserves of Sarasota County, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, https://myfwc.com/education/wildlife/gopher-tortoise/. Dont try this sport at home. "But I think I'm a little more strict than my dad.". "I was so glad that no one knew it was you back there.". "Its a whole different dynamic. Delnor-Wiggins Pass State Park is around a 30 minute drive from Naples. March 10, 2022 / 9:59 AM hb``` eah`c`x m @Yd'K99MZ8Vy 1t00{t00zb@ZEAf33 Mctgh`xq'dJfI~+P0~S@z(H00qzpWK30sBUq & Tortoises can be relocated to FWC approved recipient sites. This review is the subjective opinion of a Tripadvisor member and not of Tripadvisor LLC. The alligator first attacked the dog and when the woman tried to save the dog, she too was attacked. Tony Clemens: She named the Park after her father, whos Oscar Scherer. Please continue to help us grow our channel by, Like, Share, and SUBSCRIBE! The burrow can be 6.5 feet deep, and on average 16 feet long, although some burrows can be up to 45 feet long. The father tried to pry him from the alligators jaws, but the alligator and Lane disappeared beneath the murky water. Florida state parks also have picnic tables so they can also make for a perfect stop for a picnic. Each summer, they try to take a driving vacation. ROAD TRIP AMERICA Instead, you can get an epic island tent camping experience in Florida. This is often the type of land that is chosen for development, mining, citrus and pine plantations. "That was so silly oh, my gosh," she tells him. The address is 1843 South Tamiami Trail. The animal turned out to be even larger. Without warning, an alligator charged, dragging Lane into deeper water. Ask pbnyc2017 about Oscar Scherer State Park. All rights reserved. Youll walk across a bridge thats suspended in air, and then continue climbing the stairs up the tower for views above the trees. In the distance, a man can be heard saying, "Ma'am, I would suggest backing up, considering you just made him pretty mad. Some visitors told the press they toasted marshmallows over fire and then tossed them to the alligators in thewater. Their jaws dont move side to side. ENGLEWOOD While the state wildlife officials maintain that alligators generally avoid humans, encounters between the two are not uncommon. BRYCE CANYON UT Tip for Other Campers: Close to Venice and Sarasota Was this review helpful? Alligators are generally pretty scared of people and usually won't just randomly approach your campsite. Its not only dangerous but also illegal in Florida. This year, it's going to be upstate New York, with college tours along the way. On any given day in the scrub, gopher tortoises may be seen out and about, looking for lunch or basking in the sun. The male alligator 11 feet, 10 inches long was shot in the head one evening near dusk last month by a trapper contracted by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, according to agency records and a witness. CF: Okay. In addition to providing a refreshing respite for urban dwellers, the park serves as an important habitat for the imperiled Florida scrub-jay, which can only be found in Florida. Once you park, look in the waterway that you can see from the road. He says the Disney World alligator likely confused the small child for a dog or a raccoon. Copyright 2023 CBS Interactive Inc. All rights reserved. Myakka River State Park is also known for the canopy walk. Gular horn: How do you tell a male tortoise from a female tortoise? There are no traditional accommodations like hotels or resorts. That lesson was similar in the case of Michelle Reeves, 20. He later photographed the dead alligator in the boat at a nearby county boat ramp. All occurred in the Southeast, where alligators are endemic to wetlands and tidal Robert Bowden List: 24 fatal alligator attacks in Florida since 1973 - The News-Press Big gator. BIG ISLAND WebThis is a list of fatal alligator attacks in the United States in reverse chronological order by decade. Wildlife experts said the alligator's behavior suggested other people had been illegally feeding the animal, and it probably began associating paddlers with food. Thanks For Watching! Web1-866-FWC-GATOR (392-4286) Sharon Holmes, 16, female, was killed while swimming in a lake at Oscar Scherer State Park in Sarasota County on Aug. 16, 1973. Thank pbnyc2017 . Alligators along the road near the parking area of Fakahatchee Strand Preserve State Park: Spot the alligator! You have at least 2 chances to see alligators with a stop at Fakahatchee Strand Preserve State Park! His family moved to Florida when he was 10 years old. There is no specific threshold of complaints that must be filed before an alligator is killed, said Chad Weber, a spokesperson for the wildlife agency in Marion County. Erin Glover, 4, female, was seized and killed by an alligator while walking along the shore of A large acreage of scrubby flatwoods makes this park one of the best places to see Florida scrub-jays, a threatened species found only in On June 12, 2016, 2-year-old Lane Graves was in the happiest place on Earth. Disney World. Cayo Costa State Park is a state park in Southwest Florida where you can find shells along the shoreline. Since then, state officials said at least five times including once as recently as Jan. 19, after the park ranger's formal complaint there were no updates in the case. If you plan on making this the year of visiting many Florida state parks, then there is also an annual Florida state park pass that you can buy when you arrive at any Florida state park that you drive to that is staffed. https://t.co/sgl0UDSc1E pic.twitter.com/JDEVQmjKHc. Remember to SUBSCRIBE! You have at least 2 chances to see alligators with a stop at Fakahatchee Strand Preserve State Park! "It is an amazing animal," he said. Dusk was turning to darkness when she decided to swim from shore to a platform in the middle of a body of water. Last year, it was the Grand Canyon. First is in the parking area. After years in the woods south of Sarasota, she wants to go to college in a big city. A conventional portrait for an unconventional family. Young gopher tortoises are about 1.7 inches when they hatch, and their shell is more yellow. Oscar Scherer State Park offers some wonderful camping sites and Lake Osprey provides a nice place to do some fishing and has a beach area for swimmers. OAHU Tripadvisor performs checks on reviews. Often the apron is oriented in the direction that receives the most sun and becomes the perfect place for the mother tortoise to lay her eggs. Sarasota Jungle Gardens has a daily reptile show with alligators. Is there a lot to do on Cayo Costa island? He added: "The behavior it exhibited was becoming dangerous. Janie Melsek, a landscaper, was pruning bushes on Sanibel Island on June 21, 2004 when a 12-foot alligator lurched from adjacent water and snatched her. Toensing, a nationally renowned Republican lawyer and activist, said a young boy asked the trapper on the boat ramp why the alligator couldn't be saved. The entrance to the state park is on Tamiami Trail. Gopher tortoises have a dark grey or brownish domed shell, often peppered with the sand from their very own burrow. Bacteria thrive there. Theres comfy furniture and a long table for evening meals. It can be a scenic drive through Myakka River State Park. The best way to encounter a Florida alligator, writes Robert Bowden, is at an attraction the puts a wall between you and the animal. HAWAII VOLCANOES HI Oscar Scherer State Park is a Florida State Park located between Sarasota and Venice, near Osprey. The address is 1843 South Tamiami Trail. There are more than 250,000 visitors a year. [1] [2] [3] The park's genesis was in 1955, when Elsa Scherer Burrows, owner of the 462-acre (1.87 km 2) South Creek Ranch, died. Aurora tries to mock these trips, but she isn't very convincing.